TED 04 | Swapping Roles and the Freedom it Brings with Laura Conde

Episode 4

Joining me today we have Laura Conde. Laura is a salsa and bachata teacher and social dancer. She specializes in teaching salsa, but I have found that from personal experience in her lessons, that this gives her bachata lessons an element of freedom and playfulness that's really unique to her and her dance partner's lessons.

I'm really happy to have made a new friend and to have her here with us today. Welcome Laura.  Hello, and what a lovely presentation. Yeah.  I think I would have never described myself with so many wonderful words to describe myself as a dancer, but thank you. Well, come and chat to me more because that's all I have to say about your dancing.

Brilliant, I'll do.  Oh, Laura, so start us off. How did you get into salsa and bachata?  So, uh, this was like about eight, nine years ago now, probably nine. Um, but basically like dancing has been around my life, uh, because my parents used to dance as well. So they used to do like Cuban salsa, merengue and tango mostly.

Um, If you've ever gone to any kind of like lessons with the oldies who have their little kids around, that was me. Nice. And actually it was just this Christmas holidays that I went to a social and I was looking around like this place sounds familiar and back  About 20 years ago, I was running around there with my sister, never imagining that I would be going out there. 

So it's quite fun, but as a teenager, you know, when you're a teenager and everything your parents do, you refuse. So everything was basketball for me. I played basketball for 10 years and I loved it, and I made some of the best friends of my life. But then again, I got tired of it. And it was like,  Some people, as we were saying, they say that they start dancing because of love.

Telling me, but in my case, it was the opposite. I started dancing when I broke up  with somebody. Because I had tried to get him into dancing.  He was not up for it. And the moment that we broke up, I thought like, Mm. Tired of basketball gym is not kind of my thing. So what am I going to fill my time with?

And then is when I joined, like I joined secretly. I didn't want anybody to know. I thought like my parents could laugh on me or something like that. Oh. But they actually loved that I had started. Yeah. And yeah, I started in mad. where I am from and I took like about a year or so and then I moved into England but I started with salsa and it was then here that I started doing more bachata. 

Nice. And the rest is history. And the rest is history.  So Laura, something that stands out for me loads in your lessons is there's a very equal dynamic between leader and follower as you're teaching. And even in lead and follow, you and your partner, you often swap. So if you're explaining something from a follower's perspective, you might jump in and lead that bit to explain it and vice versa, which is really cool.

I find in  quite a lot of lessons, I won't say all, but in a lot of lessons, it ends up being quite leader focused heavy.  And it gets to a point where there's not as in it for the followers. And  Yeah, it's, yeah, totally agree. I mean, I, I could not agree more and that's something that I'm guessing you have experienced.

I have experienced in our community, I have experienced in Madrid. So it's not just a  isolated case. Now, the thing with our dynamic.  Well, I think it really helps that my  dance partner is also my partner, so the planning is not rushed. Whenever we plan for a lesson, we are both talking constantly about the things that are going to help the leader and the follower, but also we both dance as the opposite. 

So in socials, and it was so funny because like, when Paco started asking leaders for a dance as a follower himself, people would look at him a bit weirdly, and I experienced the same when a few years after I started dancing as a leader myself, that they were not taking these dances seriously. They would dance with us, of course, because they were mostly our friends, but they wouldn't take it as if they were our friends.

actually doing their dance as they would normally do. And that was kind of funny.  Yeah. Uh, luckily I can say that that has changed completely and I'm not sure about other places but at least in Oxford you can see that happening constantly. Like we're changing roles and it's just amazing. But going back to our lessons, so something that we always state is that  Well, we've got a sentence, and it's basically at the beginning of our lessons, especially when we're teaching beginners, intermediate, or if we're in a group where we've never been before, uh, we like to explain what a sentence is. 

leading and following memes and we have the same joke and whoever has been in our lessons for more than a year I'm sorry because they've  listened to that so many times but we always ask what does the the follower do and we always talk about like Following, um, interpreting the move and like the energy and mirroring the leader and receiving the message.

Whereas when then we ask, okay, what's the job of the leader? And everybody will go straight away, lead. We'll say, no,  actually suggest the move because lead sounds really forceful. Whereas suggest is, okay, I give you this idea. You take it, you interpret however you want. And if the follower is not ready. 

Let's take a basic. Yes. It's always there. Let's take a basic and also like our other our joke is basically like explaining about the rules of the leader and the follower is like okay historically leaders have been men, women, followers, now it's 2024  so regardless of what you've got between your legs you can do whatever you want.

Yes.  And then is when, because if we say partner up, like, you know, the usual couple, okay, partner up, there is this,  I, I'm guessing, like, everybody, is drawn to do this but like  a woman will look for a man a man will look for a woman and if somebody was planning on doing the opposite maybe they do not have a chance or they feel a bit too shy to step up and say actually no I'm going to try the other one around so that is why we always split like okay whoever wants to be a follower go to the side whoever wants to be a leader go to the other side.

Nice.  Then, like, you can see the people like, Mm, where should I go? What, what, what? Yeah. But then, like, they get to choose. And even if we, we got the case, like, both leader followers equally. If, let's say, a guy who wants to follow, but there are not enough leaders, they always, always, always, always, always. 

I don't know, when doing a lesson, I just think that I want to create the lessons, well, we want to make the lessons  that we would like to have as learners. Yes. So, that is key. And in regards of what you were saying about  lessons be mainly focused on the leader side,  oh, that's something that I cannot take it. 

And it's one of the reasons why I started dancing as a leader. Yeah, nice. Well, at least I'm going to get something out of this. Yeah. Yeah. And that's fair enough. I love that you use that suggestion thing, whether it's beginners or not, because even when it's a new group, that immediately sets the tone for the class of.

You are suggesting these leads, you're inviting them, this is a conversation, it's not a monologue situation. And that's, that's so cool that you'll put that in anywhere. Because a lot,  from my experience, a lot of teachers won't go back to basics in that kind of simplified way when teaching a class that's not beginners. 

Yeah, probably. It's just not as common. We might say, okay, we're going to review these basic ish steps, but there's, there's not enough  dialogue about  The basics. You're leading it, but how are you leading it? Why are you leading it?  And that, yeah.  It's just communication, isn't it? This is it, yeah. I don't know, the way I see it, um, as well with the basics and talking about all this stuff, I think also, like,  we really need to  mention that is out there that you got a person in front of you and that sometimes like whether you are dancing as an you might be dancing as an at an intermediate level but you're dancing with the beginner therefore you need  to lower the pace. 

Lower the pace and do a basic that this person is going to enjoy. Yes, so much so. Because they are. Most recently that I have to say because they are, they are, they got the power to do the suggestion. Yeah. So it always like takes more power, like you can see this. Pooh followers who are just starting dancing and suddenly especially in salsa they get lots of figures and spin and spin and it's like no no no no.

Do you think your followers are enjoying that?  It's like I'm going to show you every move I know and because you're a beginner you're I'm going to show you that and then again.  And then I will explain to you on the dance floor who. Big no no. That's the worst. So I do find sometimes if I'm dancing with a friend and they lead something that I didn't quite get, I might say to them, Ooh, again, or, and they're kind of asking to show me again.

Maybe they'll break down something or just say something as they're doing it to help me understand the follow. Um, And that's great because I'm asking for that feedback. I'm asking you to show me and vice versa. That may happen occasionally with a, okay, actually it doesn't happen. It happens when I'm leading perhaps and I'm leading with someone else. 

But yeah, it's that, it's that, Oh, you missed that follow. Let, let me show you how it's done. And you think  I didn't, it's okay. I missed it. Let's move on. We don't know each other. Well, let's just enjoy the dialogue together. Why does that still happen so often?  I don't know. Like I, I would like to think that is less and less and less. 

But sometimes, and to be honest, I have to say that most of the times whenever I saw a teacher explaining on the dance floor, I thought it was the teacher going a bit overprotective over the students. But I've experienced that as a teacher now,  the students come to me on the social asking for feedback and it's like, Oh,  so it happens the other way around as well.

This is interesting. Yeah. And I always refuse to give them feedback on the social. Okay. Yeah. I was going to ask that. So, so what's your reasoning?  Because it's social. Yeah. Yeah. We're here for fun. And I, because also like,  okay, how far do you want me to go with that feedback?  How much do you want to take in?

In that  20 seconds that I can give you of feedback with the loud music around, with somebody maybe like pushing us around because they are changing partner for the new song  or do you prefer like a more thoughtful feedback in the lesson? Yes Because if I dance with you, probably I'm going to remember At the following week that I dance with you, therefore  you can come to me later on or I can come to you like, by the way, this is what happened last day on the social, maybe this angle wasn't the right one, so it was a bit too pushy or I need more tension. 

But on the social, I think the social should be kept as these are just for, to have fun. Just for fun. Yeah. I mean, which other activity do you have that the homework is going part in?  Right? That is so true. How cool that the teacher tells you, well, you have to go to a party to practice. Yeah.  Sign in. Yeah. 

But as you said, so I think it's also a matter of trust and confidence.  Yes. So if I'm leaving something with a friend and let's say.  Let's go to a simple example, uh, a body roll on bachata and it's not on the right timing and I might do it again and I hold her like, wait a second, wait a second, let me, and we will have a laugh about it.

Also, because many of them are leading as well. Oh, yeah. And this is experience. From following to leaders, but I can imagine that leaders to followers have it as well, that anytime that I'm with a friend who is starting to lead as well, and I do a move,  they will go, Ooh, how did you do that? And vice versa, of course, if my friend has just learned a move on a different party, from a different teacher, and they lead it, and it's like, Whoa, how did you do that?

Yeah. And I love that confidence, both with any leader.  It's just so cool. It is cool. And that's why it's so cool swapping roles, because you get to experience so much more input. I love it. I'm loving it. And also, if you're swapping roles, you never miss a song.  That is so true. How many times have we gone to a social where, in our case, if we mostly follow, there are too many followers and vice versa.

What if you go to a social, you're a leader and everything is full of leaders, you are not going to dance much. Whereas if you can swap, you never miss a song. It's so embarrassing when you feel like you've got to, you know, Run into the floor to get into the dance floor because on the edge it's quite hard sometimes if there's it's very follow heavy Let's say you have to really kind of be on your game and think right I need to find someone to dance and it puts pressure and it's it totally the sun away from it  Never leave the center.

Yeah, that's the trick as soon as one song finishes. Whoever is around you. I contact let's bounce. Let's go And I think it's a matter of not being picky Oh yeah. As it happens sometimes on those shows as well. It does. But everyone's got a different style. It doesn't really matter on their level. Enjoy their level.

Enjoy their style. I quite like that as a follower, getting to take on someone else's style for a song. It's pretty fun.  Yeah. And I think like that happens on the basic.  And that is something we, in our lessons, really insist on. Basic is the most beautiful step. Yes. And we love that saying because I think it takes a lot of pressure off the shoulders of anyone dancing in our class.

Either it is the lead, because they are the best,  Making the suggestion way too late, or if it's the follow because they didn't actually quite understood what the leader meant. But if they just step into a nice basic where they re communicate, the dialogue keeps on. Yeah, for me it's the sidestep of basic.

I love that.  People don't use the sidestep much. Anyone listening, please throw in some more sidesteps for me. I love them.  Literally, funny you said that, like, this week, both Monday and Wednesday we were teaching, and in both, like,  on Monday we tried to make it, like, a bit more, like, Cuban rumba style.

Whereas yesterday it was more survival mode because the socials that we attend to on Wednesdays are really crowded. So we wanted to show them like you dance with the person in front of you, but also with everybody around. So you have to be conscious of your arms, your legs, your body, where does your partner go?

So we were teaching actually like this side step  and more like From the frame. Yes. Yeah, completely. But that's why it's such a beautiful move because when you nail it, your leader is communicating clearly what they would like you to do and you understand it and you both just go, it's like, if you were watching you wouldn't realize there had been a lead or a follow, it had just been a follow.

One pair moving.  Yeah. Oh, that's yeah, so I got  I love it.  I Want to go dancing tonight?  So  what has been your favorite part of teaching this last in this last year? What has brought you the most joy?  Mmm,  I would say many many many things like one of them was a well I think a couple weeks ago. It was a one of the Birmingham University So I'm gonna say that And there was one of the teams in which a girl who started dancing with us, she was on that team and actually that's the team that won. 

Oh, she's a far better dancer than I am, right, like at this point, like she's, the way she moves, she's beautiful. And it was just so much fun because she didn't know that we were there, we were there with the Oxford Salsa team and just supporting them. But then like, uh, I saw her like around the venue and she said like, oh my gosh.

When I was like on the stage and I saw you guys on the distance, and then I said, everyone, like my first teachers were there. And I was like,  that's so beautiful. That is beautiful. I mean, because I'm guessing like you always get me have memories from your first teacher. Oh yeah. Regardless of how good or bad their  dancers, like by that time.

You will look up to them, and you will be inspired by them. And  the thought that actually somebody was seeing me in that way, I was like, no way. Yeah. Like, somebody sees me the way I see this guy? Because even now, if I dance with him, which happened last summer, we, we actually run into each other over the summer holidays, and we dance and so on.

And I will go so nervous, and I will get the, Oh my gosh, I'm dancing with my first teacher. Oh, the judgment is there. I'm sure, I'm sure. But like, thinking that somebody will see me that way,  I was amazed, like, oh, I'm no one. Come on, you were amazing. It was so much fun. Oh, what an honor. And that's, that first teacher is the one who brings the love of dancing to that student. 

So, you brought her that joy.  I think that is one of our  main features that we are not teachers. We are entertainers. Okay. Yeah. In a sense. I, and that is also our go to sentence because  again, what kind of teacher will have got me into dancing? Yeah. Somebody who will make me laugh. Somebody who  will make time fly.

Somebody that is actually like I'm taking something from them, but at the same time. It is the day of the lesson and I'm looking forward. I'm not looking for excuses. So, yeah, I think in terms of like your previous question, the other part that I would say is that we've kept numbers kind of constant. Yeah, in a sense and not obviously like I wouldn't say it for the money because I will be paid whether it's One person 20 people.

Yeah,  regardless and actually the more the more I have to use my voice and the more difficult It would be easier to have just a group of 10  Beginners we then have to split them up because we were having like so many that we wanted to go from scratch and then beginners who were actually  so getting at improvers level.

Yeah. But they are all there on a weekly basis and if they cannot make it, they apologize and it's like, you are the cutest.  You need to apologize. Um, I don't know. They're, they're friends. Yeah. It's just, yeah. The energy from the people is just so cool. I really like the lessons. That's cool. I, but I really think that the vibe and atmosphere that is in a dance class is.

led and influenced heavily by the teachers. So. That's a hats off to you and Paco as well for that.  Yeah, they have to be the ones sweating on the teachers.  It's good to get teachers to sweat every now and then, yes. Yeah.  Yeah. Oh, it's so true. Because for me, it was that, that input of learning. I love, love learning something new.

And my first teacher was very much of, um, I want you to go out and be a social dancer. Um, and it was that vibe of you are going to, you're going to grow. You're going to go and.  Enjoy parties and things and I thought yes, and that's what brought me in right away. And then it was that constant progression feedback.

So being able to give feedback in a way that's not critical, but more like,  if you do this, then this will be easier, be better. And it was such a positive way  to be in the learning process. Yeah,  I agree. Yeah, because at the end of the day, like, I really like that dancing,  I suppose, as some people might feel it is not competitive.

And I've been in competition, like,  Many years with the basketball and 10 years of it and yeah,  10 years of like going to the basketball games and feeling the pressure. Yeah. And that's something that I've never experienced with the social dancing. Nice. And it's just amazing. I tried performing and that is this side that I don't like.

Mm-Hmm.  Like,  and it was actually this weekend that I did my last performance with my team. Uh, I've loved the learning. I love. the union performing? No, not for me. Actually, it was fun because I got slapped on the face  in the middle of the performance.  But it was in front of like such  a familiar crowd, like they were all our friends, literally everybody laughing.

And then I had it on video. And I was going around the social, so in slow motion, the slap. Oh, brilliant. I was going to make a GIF and a meme about it.  Did you, did you see it coming?  Oh no, not this one.  So I kept laughing, like, you can see me on the video, doing the choreo, muscle memory going, but me laughing. 

And my partner, like, the guy I was dancing with, like, Oh my gosh, Laura, are you okay? And it's like, yeah, yeah,  let's finish it.  Oh, that's fantastic.  I've only dipped my toes into, into performance a little bit and  Yeah, I feel like I'm a social dancer.  I liked the, I liked the teaminess of one of the groups I was in.

They were a lovely bunch of women.  Um, but this, yeah, I'm a, I'm a social dancer. Is it a, a styling team  or?  So the first one was a styling team. No, the second one was a styling team. The first one, but it got cut short because of pandemic. That was a  partner team.  Yeah. That one was definitely too intense for me. 

I mean, but you get, you know, If, if the teacher leading the group is good, you learn a choreography, but you take away the technique. Yes. And that's how I fell with all the things I've done, that, sure, performing, not for me. The costumes, I love them. Yeah.  Just for the photo shoot, it was worth it. But, but then when it comes to perform. 

I don't know, like, I remember there was another one that I was performing in London and this is, like, many years ago. I was teaching even there, like, I was there just improving.  Um,  and then, like, I fell  in London with lots of people. And you know how you have to do this kind of, like, catwalk to get out of the stage?

I did it, like, smiling, but I was crying.  I was like, everybody was later coming on like, well, don't you? It's okay. It's not. I fell  in front of lots of people.  But you got back up. Yeah. I think that those things really helped me again, because I could take away the technique. And if teaching nowadays, Any of the followers come up to me with the technique in terms of spinning, in terms of like the position of the arms.

I can refer back to my first team because their teacher I had,  well they were Gil and Shelly from London. Okay, yeah.  They were both amazing, but like I got so much from her. Yeah, I still put it into practice. It's so wonderful. That's the effect of a fantastic teacher. Mm hmm. Indeed, and they are. They are. 

It seems like I'm doing them a promo here, but they are worth it.  It's not promo if you're doing it because you feel it. All from the heart. Absolutely. All from the heart. Yes.  Then it's just well earned promo. For me, I'm a social dancer. I love that. I feed off that energy with the other person. When things go wrong, you just go with it.

That's now what's right because that's what's happened. And  I love that. Yeah.  Yeah. I love like when a mistake on the dance floor leads you to laugh with your partner.  Yeah, it's just so cool. Um, yeah, there are some socials that are they just fill your heart So at the moment Paco and I, we are organizing socials here in Oxford.

Ooh, lovely. And they are like a matinee so they happen during the afternoon, during the evening because we were getting many people saying like Actually, it would be nice to have like something more like you know, family friendly hours. Yeah. But I'm not going to be exhausted at the following day. I can still get to do stuff.

Yeah. And actually Paco was the model for all the organization. Like, he was brilliant because back then I was like in a really busy time and  He's still the main lead organizer of it, but obviously we  look for the music, we, we create like the posters and it's been a really cool process. But the parties we've organized two so far, and the vibe is so chill, like they were even families with their children.

Ah, I was like, Oh, this is so cute, like families dancing with their kids. So this is like hanging around with friends, literally. Ah,  fantastic. I'm so cool that you guys are. Contributing to the scene you're hearing what people want and going, all right, let's see if we can make it happen. Oh, I mean, we wanted to make something really approachable.

Our policy is like it is free.  Oh, okay. Yeah.  Now we're looking. So it is free with a class beforehand that is like a free tour. Like, so the concept of like prize donation based. Yeah. We say to the people, This is the class you can attend. You're going to have a beginner's, you're going to have an improver's intermediate level. 

You pay as much as you think this class was worth.  Oh. Um, yeah, it's, I think it's nice to have something that is not that expensive around. Yes. I mean for us, the purpose, we do not get any profits out of this. I mean, well, from the last one we got eight pounds. Ooh. It's paid for the burger. With the horse. 

But I think like for us, we wanted to have a show show where we could play the music that we like and for people to enjoy and make it like affordable. So, and I think it's perfect for people who are actually considering initiating themselves. Because if you've got, you know, the usual friend who already dances and they're saying to their friends, come on, come on, come to a show show.

And then they get to the door and it's 12.  Yeah, they're not going to get in, they're not going to experience it  at first. So, but if we say, hey, it's free, we go for a beer, if you like it, you dance, if not, that's totally fine. Yeah. And more people started to come to the lessons after that because they like it.

They get that chance to see it without the pressure of I've spent money so I have to get money's worth. Actually, the one who joined was the bartender of the venue. Hey!  Brilliant. He's adorable. He's amazing.  Good job, him.  Oh,  that sounds fab. We, we have a, we tried a similar model in Bristol with a free social, um, with donations if you wanted to contribute, but we were finding that we were losing too much money.

So we've had to make it a, just a three quid entry thing to try and make it. So that it can, it can be sustained and it can continue happening because there's low cost chill out.  Yeah, we do it at a cafe,  which is a really cool space because they do lots of like social stuff, such as comedy shows and theater and readings and so on.

And they do not charge us anything. Oh, how lovely. Everything goes from the profits of the, on the profits from the drinks. Basically, so that is what we do. We say do not make a donation if you don't want to like we rather have you consuming so this event can be sustained. Yeah. Okay. That sounds like a nice So far, it seems that it's working.

Yay! And if it could be a win win for, win win win, win win win for you, win win win for the location, win win win for the students, win win win! It's amazing! No, no, no, it's really, it's really good fun. Yeah.  And we play lots of merengue, which is not that common around England. But how fun is merengue? Bananas!

It's a,  it's like the ultimate social fun dance. Anyone can get up and do it. Exactly. Exactly. Even the children were dancing it. Yay!  I'm going to have to make a trip to Oxford to come and join in for the next one. Please do. I will send you details. Yes, please. Thank you.  Oh, Laura, it's been wonderful speaking to you today.

This has been fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting. It was so exciting. It was fun. I know you have, you've brought the joy and the playfulness, the energy that you have to your lessons. You've brought it here for us all as well, which is a real treat. Thank you. No, thank you for making this because to be honest, I love podcasts, but I never find like many related to this hobby,  which is like so widespread.

And so I will be listening to this one.  Well, thank you very much.  for listening to the Empowered Dancers podcast. If there's an aspect of the dancing you would like to hear about, or a particular teacher you would like to hear from, drop me a message and I will try to make it happen. Make sure you subscribe to get every episode as it comes out.

Thank you so much for the comments and questions you are already sharing. I really, really appreciate it, and I look forward to serving you in next week's episode.